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Barker interviews Dean

Gray Barker’s “Lost Interviews” with John W. Dean, Interplanetary Traveler

By Raymond A. Keller, PhD, a.k.a. “Cosmic Ray,” author of the international awards-winning Venus Rising Trilogy, published by Headline Books and available on, while supplies last

Korendorian ground scooter in John W. Dean’s 1969 UFO book may have served as inspiration for Luke Skywalker’s “landspeeder” on Star Wars series.

Luke Skywalker was always hard pressed to find a charging station on the distant moon of Tatooine.  How much of science fiction is derived from real UFO contactee lore?  See


        On 8 October 1968, Gray Barker, the editor and publisher of the Saucerian Press in Clarksburg, West Virginia, conducted the first of two telephone interviews with John W. Dean of Hutchinson, Kansas.  Barker had recently completed reading Dean’s first book, Flying Saucers and the Scriptures  (New York, New York:  Vantage Press,1964), and was impressed with the author’s profound understanding of matters extraterrestrial, particularly the clandestine operations and interventions of alien beings in our various nations here on Earth going back thousands of years to the times of the Old Testament.


John W. Dean was born on a small farm just a few miles west of Nickerson, Kansas, in 1919 and lived for 80 years.  Nickerson’s only claim to fame was that it was the home of Alexander Pearson (1895-1924), an Army aviator in World War I, who after returning to civilian life was the winner of the first cross-country airplane race.  Naturally, Dean and the other boys growing up in and around Nickerson kept their eyes fixed on the sky, sharing dreams of following in the footsteps of their hometown aviation hero.  As the young Dean watched the night skies, however, he began to wonder if there were any other inhabited worlds out there, peppering the vastness of outer space.

Following graduation from high school, Dean went on to attend the Kansas State Teachers College and graduate with a Bachelor’s degree denoting a dual major in art and mechanical drawing.  Before embarking on a teaching career, however, Dean perfected his trade by taking additional classes in his specialty areas at the Pratt Institute of Art in Brooklyn, New York,[1] as well as the School of Applied Art in Chicago, Illinois.  Gaining sufficient confidence, Dean taught mechanical drawing and sundry art classes at various institutions of higher education throughout the country.

Dean was also a seeker of spiritual wisdom.  When he heard and read about the countless flying saucer sightings occurring all across the world in the late 1940s, he was one of the first to ponder the religious implications of the phenomenon.  Flying Saucers and the Scriptures was the natural outgrowth of these musings.  The book also served as the basis for his many lectures given over the years to UFO and paranormal research clubs around the world.  Both the UFO tome and his presentations were highlighted by many of Dean’s own interesting illustrations and legible charts.

It was while in the process of making appearances to flying saucer groups and conventions that Dean was approached by the actual commander of the Venusian space fleet patrolling our planet, Valiant Thor.  According to Thor’s words in a later edition of Dean’s book, “I eventually spoke to him (Dean) directly, as commander of the Earth fleet, and convinced him that interplanetary travel and trade are not only possible, but are already a reality.”

Dean’s meetings with extraterrestrials increased over the years.  He was even invited for rides on their interplanetary spaceships and spent much time with his celestial friends on other worlds learning of their varied inhabitants, their histories, their astounding science and advanced spiritual understanding.

First Interview

What I enjoyed most about the following interview was Dean’s clear command of astronomical knowledge, giving credence to his claims of extraterrestrial contact.

Gray Barker (GB):  Thank you, Mr. Dean, for granting me this time to interview you.

John W. Dean (JD):  It’s an honor, Mr. Barker.  After all, I assume from the name of your firm (Saucerian Press) that you specialize in book about flying saucers.  I have actually completed my new book, Flying Saucers Close Up, and am seeking a publishing firm that is not allergic to space ships and space people.

John W. Dean was given a tour aboard a mothership from the distant planet Korendor.  See


The two dismissed with formalities and from this point called each other by their first names.

GB:  OK, John, tell me more about the new book.

JD:  Gray, I believe it will prove to be the best ever produced, or can be written for many years to come as about three-fourths of it is directly or indirectly from friendly spacemen; and I was chosen to compile it from infinite information which they supply to their Terran (Earthling) representative.  He (Gabriel Green) passes it on to me with that in mind, as he writes for the Amalgamated Flying Saucer Clubs of America (AFSCA) Magazine, and it is about three years behind the latest reports to me.

GB:  What do you mean?

JD:  I give a sort of preview, in case my book is released before his experiences are published.

GB:  Great, John.  I also work closely with Gabe; so we have a mutual friend.  But why did the space people choose you for this task?

JD:  The space folk liked by first book, Flying Saucers and the Scriptures; but it was never properly promoted or advertised.  And Vantage Press intended to kill it (subsidized) and keep the change.  They said it was well written, the most comprehensive and fairly accurate, and by far the best illustrated.  I was an art instructor and commercial artist for many years so am able to make my own pictures better than an uninformed artist.  This Terran representative is a good artist himself, so he sends me sketches which I render in color or as wash drawings which resemble photographs.

GB:  That’s amazing.  We could always use someone with your talent as an illustrator here at Saucerian Press.  I can’t wait to check out some of your art work in the new book.

JD:  I have much illustrative material which I can send to show the scope of our knowledge of space people, their craft, and of other planets, stars, and of the galaxy, far beyond the total known by our astronomers and more dependable than their estimates.  I am going to put in the mail to you a Xerox copy of the list of chapter headings to show the scope of our findings.

GB:  I can you sum up these contents for me?

JD:  Sure, Gray.  My friend, Robert Renaud, was chosen as the best man on Earth to represent the Korendians who have bases on the Moon and possibly as many on the Earth, for there may be a hundred thousand of them here now.  He was taken to the Moon on 3-4 December 1966 (Chapter 25) and again on 28 July 1967 (Chapter 26); and I have his full reports of 123 pages condensed to about one quarter of my book at his request.

GB:  That’s definitely the type of material that Saucerian Press readers are interested in.  Tell me more.

JD:  Well, Chapter 13 contains a master list of stars and their planets from 4.5 to 800 light years away, with local names, population and whether colonized or indigenous or uninhabited, the day-length in hours and the comparative year-length, diameter in miles, and their allegiance to the Worlds Alliance or the Planetary Confederation, or neutral.

GB:  Our scientists tell us that they don’t know if planets exist in the orbits of other stars.  What do you know about these distant worlds that they don’t?

JD:  Our astronomers actually do know of the existence of one big planet in orbit around Barnard’s Star.  But there are really two planets in orbit around Barnard’s Star, known as Esenho One and Esenho Two by the beings that live on these worlds.  Their sun is a small red dwarf about six light years away from Earth.  These are facts that will never be learned from purely telescopic study.  You need a special type of radio telescope to detect these planets.

GB:  You’ve got me hooked, John.  What else can send to me?

JD:  Gray, I’m also going to send you a list of illustrations.  The front piece is actually in bright colors; and the same picture is to be on the cover.  One or two other full-page colored photos and also of black are included as plates to be tipped in so it will be attractive at first glance.  There are about a dozen other, smaller colored illustrations that may be bunched together if necessary; but I hope all can be used in the chapter to which they apply.

GB:  That seems just like the type of book that would really be valued by readers of the Saucerian Press.

JD:  Yes, and I hope the book can be larger than average to accommodate some long charts and a map of Korendor which is absolutely unique.  Also, some letters from spacemen to me reproduced, somewhat as illustrations, to show their use of English and their own alphabets.  Chapter 9 gives hundreds of words in the Korendorian language from which came our Latin- their simplified phonetic spelling and all regular verbs and word-endings to aid us in our education.  However, ten of my charts went to Korendor to aid them with English, which some of them speak fluently.  I admit that I found it very interesting as I proofread my script.

GB:  Anything else, by way of explanation that I should know about now concerning this book?

JD:  Well, Gray, something happened that the Korendorians notified our friend (Gabriel Green) that their correspondence and communications by radio would be drastically curtailed; so I closed my book with a rather ragged ending as Chapter 34.  It is unclassified material and recent material by paragraphs which did not justify making changes in the manuscript.  It is, however, up-to-date in this way as, just last week, I added comments about comets in our system and elsewhere and how one would look when seen by a spaceship “close up,” but still no reason for their existence.

GB:  You do know, John, that while I do not have all the scientific connections of Coral and Jim Lorenzen over at APRO (Aerial Phenomena Research Organization in Tucson, Arizona) or Major Donald E. Keyhoe of NICAP (National Investigations Committee on Aerial Phenomena in Washington, D.C.), I nevertheless do have some access to numerous journalists and UFO experts who help me clarify any of the information you present, but only so I can better edit it.  I won’t alter the content presented, only the form in which it is delivered.

JD:  I understand that, Gray.  You have done such a marvelous job with the books of many other contactees, that I completely trust you in this regard.

GB:  Thanks, John.  I appreciate your confidence in me and the Saucerian Press.  We’ll try and present your book to the public in a most scientific and optimistic light.

JD:  That’s what I’m looking for, Gray.  I want this to be the most attractive book possible in appearance, so am not interested in it as a paperback volume.  I estimate that it will run about 300 pages, if somewhat over-size.  We (Dean, Green and Renaud) believe that such a book is essential if the world is ever to know who our friends in space are, who are lukewarm and who our enemies are.  Also, that we will present a real hope for the future as conditions grow worse, something in which all men of good will can join together and have superhuman guidance such as has been given successfully to thousands of other wavering planets; and none has ever asked to secede though their rules permit it.  If we rate at or near the bottom of those not definitely as enemies of all humankind on Earth and realize it, but cannot help ourselves, then anything that friendly space beings can do for us will be much better than the mess we are now in, commonly called the “status quo.”

GB:  In one sentence, why should Saucerian Press be the publisher of Flying Saucers Close Up?

JD:  Gray, I think that if you will read the manuscript carefully, you will soon realize that you can do more to bring back the paradise on Earth than all of our armies combined efforts; and in the process, you should be able to generate a little profit for yourself.

GB:  Very good, John, and well-stated.  I’m particularly pleased that you realize that as long as we have to contend with living under a capitalist system, profits are needed to keep businesses alive and thriving.

JD:  Thank you, Gray.  After you have received the manuscript and have had the time to go over it, I should like to hear from you as to what you can do, along the lines we have spoken about, and your terms, and above all, how quickly the book can be produced.  We were told that the world would see far more spaceships this fall as a sign of activity designed to end the war (in Vietnam), but I have no such reports; but I have been promised a trip aloft soon, after the war is stopped.  If the space folk have to do it, it will not be as pleasant for the United States as it would be if we had shown more regard for what they have already told us.  That is, if the Korendorian plan had been adopted by the United States through special legislation ten years ago, as is done by other planets under Alliance guidance, we would like it better than if we were looked upon as no better than our adversaries.

Much like the menacing robot in the 20th Century Fox 1951 science fiction movie classic, Day the Earth Stood Still, the Korendorians warned John W. Dean that if the politicians in the United States could not extract American troops from the Vietnam conflict within a reasonable amount of time, the Interplanetary Alliance would be forced to end the war themselves on terms that they would not like.

GB:  Many thanks, John.  I’m looking forward to reading your book and will get back you soon thereafter.  My kindest regards to you, your family, Gabe and Bob (Renaud), as well as to our space friends for Korendor.

Second Interview

        It seems that John W. Dean jumped the gun in his first interview with Barker, as much more work and editing was required on the text for Flying Saucers Close Up than he had originally anticipated.  It was already in the first week of April 1969, and Barker had yet to receive anything but sparse sample pages and a few illustrations from Dean, but nothing that Saucerian Press could publish in any logical and presentable form.

Here follows a synopsis of the second telephone interview conducted by Gray Barker with John W. Dean on 4 April 1969:

JD:  Oh, Gray, good to hear from you.  I suppose you must be wondering what happened to my book which was reported as “practically finished.”

GB:  Yes, John, that is the purpose for my call.  What’s going on out there in Hutchinson, Kansas?

JD:  Well, things are shaping up and are very discouraging, but maybe not hopeless.  First, I was denied permission to show the picture of Christ by the artist, Mrs. Nida King, who has it back in her possession, all officially copyrighted.  This may be based on a misunderstanding that I wanted it to produce and sell, though my letter to her was clear that I only wanted to advertise it for whoever had control.  A long, sad story, but she seems to have “gone bad” after the wonderful experience of having been divinely inspired to paint a magnificent portrait; divorced and straying so far that Christ appeared to her and rebuked her and said He would do no more for her unless she repented.  She “defected” so far that now she will not have any more pictures (photographs) sold.

GB:  Is this religious angle important to the book?

JD:  I believe it is, Gray, at least important to the message that the space people want to convey to the people here on Earth.

GB:  OK, then what is being done to take care of this issue over the Christ picture?

JD:  Rev. Milton Nothdurft, a Methodist minister of Sioux City, Iowa, was such a close friend of Rev. Holsworth that he took pictures and made a tape recording as a lecture, and she painted another picture for him.  He offered to make negatives for me in preparation for him or his church to proceed; but she had painted into the second one that it is copyrighted.  Maybe this was not filed officially in the D.C. office- but enough so her lawyers would make it hot for him.  All concerned are regarded as good Christians, so no one wants to make trouble.  I wrote to him today to check with the copyright office to see if the second picture of the same subject by the same artist is automatically covered.  I doubt it.  I suppose it depends on the dates; but I can hardly hold back for a miracle to take place.  I have an idea, but will hold it back to the last when I send the manuscript and illustrations.

GB:  We can’t start to do anything for you here at Saucerian Press, John, until we have some substantial material to work with.

JD:  I understand that, Gray; and I’m sorry.  The list is badly altered by new pictures being added and my big job is to revise it so all run consecutively.  I got the manuscript back a few days ago and am checking in the new ones.  Bunching the colored ones will upset the consecutive order; but it will not matter as there is no plot or chronological order of events recorded.

GB:  Sounds like you’ve borrowed a page or two from that recently released Kurt Vonnegut novel, Slaughterhouse Five (New York, New York:  Delacorte, released 31 March 1969), about a contactee that becomes unstuck in time.  Really, a straight chronological account would be just fine, for my part.

JD:  Well, I reckon I must give up getting a few dangling items from Renaud as he seems to be through with me.  Gabriel Green writes that he is married and is having troubles enough already.  That would be to his Korendorian sweetheart, Astra-Lari.  I presume that you have his report of how, when and where he met her at the base?  The chapter on marriage and divorce that he gave me says they could not marry according to Alliance rules.  She worked t the base and met him in Pittsfield once a week, I believe.  I think that he may have taken her home and they had to leave.  But that is not for me to guess.

GB:  Anything else in the way of obstacles?

JD:  Well, Rev. Nothdurft had corresponded with Bob (Renaud) until some sort of “ultimatum” stopped him.  I assume that that was the letter the Three Men in Black left in the mailbox after working on him.  Do you have a copy of it?  I should have it somewhere.  I advised him to save his life and keep his sanity; but he finally defied the Omegans for a year or more.

GB:  Sorry to hear that.  No, I don’t any letter telling me about that.  But if you can locate your copy and send it to me, that would be appreciated.  Is there anything else going on right now in your life that I need to know about?

JD:  Yes, I also got a letter from Zagga which should have told me how he, the “Superman,” reconciled his claims as a Christian to his doctrines of reincarnation; and again he let me down.  He also omitted his conception of the New Jerusalem.  I was sick from disappointment for days, but finally wrote him pointedly that he had led me on for years and I still believe he is what he claimed, and the Korendorians verified.  I asked if he wanted me to tell the shameful story and say that he could not or would not reply and settle the growing dispute between churches and space folk. I do not doubt that he is, or was, a great man, but must admit that he has not shown himself to be a real friend.  He denounced Renaud and (Jim) Hill as secret enemies, working with the bad ones of Pluto (a planet without any indigenous life forms), who would take me up to their base there and kill me, based on a strange doctrine of one William H. Goetz, who is also building a saucer in a remote place near Mackinac Island, Michigan.

GB:  I’m not really interested in publishing a book about theology, John.  Saucerian Press readers want to know more about how the space people live on their home worlds and what they are doing here on Earth.  But this William Goetz sounds like an interesting character.

JD:  OK, All I know about that is that Goetz may have stumbled upon some secret of flying saucer propulsion, for I have been shown pictures of a saucer parked on the ground, but not actually flying.  However, I am not obliged to drop my book on his whims.

GB:  What about the space people?

JD:  Bob and his space friends from many distant planets have sent me so much wonderful information and faithfully answered my intimate questions that it is preposterous to doubt their reliability.  And Jim Hill is one of the most devoted friends I have.  He expects to accompany me and my professional photographer, and I hope, the local Saturnian who lives here.  It was men from Saturn who saved me in the Army hospital when I was born, when Uncle Sam with his inept doctors in the middle of an epidemic (1918-1920) was my implacable enemy, and saved me for fifty years for this work.  Not to deceive me!  Hill hopes they can restore his wife to health such that she can go along, for both have seen thousands of spaceships from their place in Cedar Gap, Missouri.

GB:  The next time you speak with Jim, please extend my best wishes to him and his wife, especially for her speedy recovery.

JD:  I’ll do that, Gray.  I know the trip has been delayed and postponed for over a year and may never come; but if they (the extraterrestrials) are actively engaged in averting a nuclear war, then I must wait or miss the great honor.  I try to persuade myself that some good may come in waiting, but the certainty of it surely will affect the reputation of my book; and we need to know before it goes to press.  I hardly dare hint of it in the manuscript, though I do tell of it among friends.  I do not seek speaking engagements at present, but did accept a second one for an astronomy class at the planetarium, as the head man seems to have become open-minded.  I am getting too old and forgetful to count on long drives to speak, so really need to be rejuvenated.

GB:  That is all well and good, John; but if we are waiting on material from Renaud, Green, Zagga and others, this book may never see the light of day.  Just send me what you have and let us at Saucerian Press see what we can do with it.

JD:  Honestly, Gray, it will be a big job to rework the manuscript and renumber the pictures, so I am estimating another month of delay.  Having re-read the book months ago, I feel that it is good and hope I can scatter the ragged ending so it will not be so obvious.  The $3,000 is available; so that is the least of our problems.  I cannot do much about original art work instead of Kodachrome prints, so will send both when I can and let you choose whichever will reproduce best.

GB:  OK, John, that sounds reasonable to me.  I can wait a month, and the $3000 for publication of the book will remain our estimate here at Saucerian.

JD:  I will also be enclosing my latest “cartoon” based on word from Venus via Korendor.  The original was too black and the darker Xerox copies would certainly look more realistic.  It was drawn from the Venus 3 probe; but I found a drawing of Venus 4 and added details rather than draw it again.  I am not proud of the job, but doubt if I could do any better.  It explains the reports pretty well, so I accept it, except for that of the air pressure being so great. That could be due to the speed at which it was hustled out of town.

GB:  Or a more likely scenario, and simpler explanation, might be that both the Americans and the Russians are simply not telling us the real truth about intelligent life on Venus.

At this point, both Gray and John have a good, heart-felt laugh.

JD:  Oh, before we sign off, Gray, did I tell you that the Kors (Korendorians), via Renaud, had given me a sort of title, “Doctor of Extraterrestrial Research (DOER)?  I thought it was to be made official the last time I spoke at Wichita University; but Dr. Pronko of the Psychology Department was out of town and two professors did not know about it.  I do have the Bachelor of Fine Arts from Pratt Institute, but errors in my transcripts of grades made it useless.  Corrected nine years late, when I was too old to get my certificate renewed!

GB:  Thank you for updating your academic history, John.  At least Pratt finally came around to acknowledge your degree.  I will be sure to make sure that your author biography in the book reflects your many accomplishments, to thereby add credibility with Saucerian readers in regard to your account of the Korendorians.

One of the highlights of the second interview was the mention made by the contactee, John W. Dean, of an authentic-looking picture of Jesus the Christ made by a local Kansas artist, Mrs. Nida King, who produced the art following a religious vision.  Apparently, the picture made quite an impression on Dean as it conformed nicely to actual photographs of the Cosmic Christ taken by the Korendorians, the Venusians and other extraterrestrials that he had seen while onboard their spaceships.  Here below is a reproduction of King’s picture that was later sent to Barker by Dean.

This is the “ET Jesus,” according to John W. Dean.

  Editor’s Note:  If you would like to ask the Cosmic Ray any questions about Venus or life on other planets, do not hesitate to send him an e-mail at  The doctor will be appearing with Omnec Onec, the Ambassador from Venus, along with premier ufologist Laura Eisenhower, at the Promise Revealed Meet the Venusians Mt. Shasta Summer Conference, to be held Wednesday, 26 August 2020 through Sunday 30 August 2020 at the Siskiyou Masonic Lodge, Mount Shasta, California.  For event information or to purchase tickets, please call Rob Potter at (530) 925-3502.  Until then, in the profound words of Venusian Moon Base Clarion Commander Aura Rhanes, “Work, study, and meditate on all good things!”


[1] John W. Dean did earn his second Bachelor’s degree, in Fine Arts, from the Pratt Institute; but due to an administrative snafu in his transcripts, it was never credited to him by this institution until he was already retired.

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